Airsoft under 18

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Airsofter
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Airsoft under 18

Postby Airsofter » 3 October 2015, 10:48

Tjena undrar bara om det finns möjlighet att köra airsoft på ngn bana när man är under 18?

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alexoyeah
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby alexoyeah » 3 October 2015, 11:42

Det finns. Men det här forumet stödjer inte det så det bästa tipset jag har är att leta efter föreningar på Facebook.
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby Hälge » 3 October 2015, 13:33

Varför uppmana?
Kort o gott; nej det finns inte.

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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby JonathanRL » 3 October 2015, 14:13

Det absolut första som bör nämnas är att enligt svensk lag så måste du vara över 18 år för att få delta i airsoftspel eller äga ett airsoftvapen. Det är ingenting som spelare hittat på för att vara elaka utan det är så lagen ser ut. Det absolut vanligaste är att spelare under 18 argumenterar att de får delta om de har övervakare eller målsmans underskrift. Vi är trötta på att höra det felaktiga motargumentet och du är inte ett undantag från reglerna. En övervakare har inte någon möjlighet att avstyra felaktigt användande av det effektbegränsade vapnet. På många spel kan personer under 18 vara välkomna som statister, sjukvårdare eller fotografer men du får inte spela eller äga ett vapen och du kan få problem med Polisen om du gör det. Detta riskerar även att ge hobbyn ett dåligt rykte och att ge hobbyn dåligt rykte är inte det bästa sättet att börja i någon hobby. Om du inte är 18 får du gärna läsa på, diskutera och köpa utrustning som inte är vapen tills dess att du fyllt år.
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby Wzn » 3 October 2015, 18:59

Ring polisen och snacka om det istället.

Inställningen på detta forumet är att det är totalförbjudet att deltaga om man inte är över 18. Polisen vapenavdelning håller dock inte med. Har själv hört av mig med denna anledning och snopet blev det när jag hörde det var grönt ljus.

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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby livewire » 3 October 2015, 19:14

Check with http://www.grimsas.se/oppna/ if theyre within your distance,good guys and they have a ongoing cooperation with the police and promote the younger lads getting in to the sport, be wary of all the armchair lawyers

http://www.grimsas.se/oppna/dokument/polecy.pdf
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby Dimage » 3 October 2015, 19:45

armchair lawyers??
Law in Sweden clearly say what you are alowed to do under 18.

You are NOT alowed to:
Own a gun ( includes Airsoft guns )
Use a gun outside a range by yourself
Need to be in armlegth reach of a grownup.

No you can tell us how a person under 18 can play and not breat the law livewire...


Under 18 så kan du inte spela utan att bryta den vapenlag som finns.
Oavsett om det finns föreningar eller företag som påstår att du kan.

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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby KronaN » 3 October 2015, 20:15

Anledningen till att airsoftscenen i vårt land är så strikt på den här punkten är att vi vill undvika negativ publicitet in i det sista. Det hör till hobbyns natur. Visst kan man försöka böja på lagtolkningen såsom vissa föreningar gör, men den strikta nolltoleransen man kan se nästan överallt finns till av en anledning.

Vi vill hålla antalet incidenter med polis/myndigheter inblandade så nära 0 som möjligt.

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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby livewire » 3 October 2015, 20:51

See told you..... ;-)

armchair lawyers??
Law in Sweden clearly say what you are alowed to do under 18.

You are NOT alowed to:

1)Own a gun ( includes Airsoft guns )
A) You hire or loan a airsoft gun

2)Use a gun outside a range by yourself
A)You have adult supervisor with you

3)Need to be in armlegth reach of a grownup.
A)You are in a arms reach of adult supervision

And by the way I said Young lads getting into the sport no mention of owning or shooting airsoft guns

:roll: sorry wrong smile ;)
Last edited by livewire on 3 October 2015, 21:39, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby BlåMes » 3 October 2015, 21:14

Svårt att avgöra det här.
Finns 15-åringar som säkert skulle ha mer vett i fält än vissa vuxna.
Väldigt svårt att veta vilka det är dock.
Och som sagt, skulle det hända något så slår det oerhört negativt mot sporten.
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby Dimage » 4 October 2015, 01:08

livewire wrote: 3)Need to be in armlegth reach of a grownup.
A)You are in a arms reach of adult supervision
We all know this is an impossible thing in a game.
So still a NO.
You break the law if you play under the age of 18...

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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby alexoyeah » 4 October 2015, 01:37

det är inte BOKSTAVLIG armslängd...
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby Baro » 4 October 2015, 02:04

livewire wrote: 3)Need to be in armlegth reach of a grownup.
A)You are in a arms reach of adult supervision
Detta är skrivet med målskytte i åtanke, inte airsoft eller paintballspelande.
Men om jag inte har misstagit mig får Frysen ha minderåriga på sin bana med Jönköpingspolisens tillåtelse.

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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby JonathanRL » 4 October 2015, 08:35

livewire wrote:See told you..... ;-)

armchair lawyers??
Law in Sweden clearly say what you are alowed to do under 18.

You are NOT alowed to:

1)Own a gun ( includes Airsoft guns )
A) You hire or loan a airsoft gun

2)Use a gun outside a range by yourself
A)You have adult supervisor with you

3)Need to be in armlegth reach of a grownup.
A)You are in a arms reach of adult supervision
Yes, and it has all been tried in court. A minor was shooting a cheap soft air gun was held accountable and sentenced by two courts. They note that the law does not make it specificity clear on what is a reasonable distance and that a person in another room - or for that matter in an airsoft game - has no ability to intervene should be weapon be misused. Since the owner of the weapon in question was unable to prevent misuse, the minor was sentenced for crimes against Vapenlagen.

Source: https://lagen.nu/dom/nja/2005s758
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby HrodgarHippie » 4 October 2015, 08:57

Jag skriver detta på svenska, eftersom jag vill minnas att Livewire har skrivit att han kan läsa och förstå svenska bra, han föredrar bara att slippa svara på det.

Problemet vi har inom detta med åldern i Sverige är att i grund och botten är LAGEN skriven att kortfattat så får inte person under 18 spela airsoft i vad det betyder i verkliga livet, dvs röra sig i fält.
Vi har ingen lag som täcker skytte och rörelse, utan ENBART statiskt skytte mot en måltavla på en skyttebana. Därmed har man fått börja TOLKA lagen för att ANPASSA den till vår hobby. Vi tolkar, minderåriga tolkar, Poliserna själva tolkar.

Och när olika personer tolkar, kommer man fram till olika resultat.

DÄRFÖR har vi vissa banor som har minderåriga spel, eftersom där har banan och förhoppningsvis Polisen på plats tolkat till en lösning de finner acceptabelt där.

Sen kanske det finns andra banor där tillfrågad lokal Polis svarat precis tvärtom, för det är Tolkningen som sker där.

Skulle man sedan ta "Bana A"'s godkända tillstånd av [den lokala] Polisen till en annan kommun så skulle det bli ett omedelbart nekande eftersom Kommun B's Polis läser ut lagen på ett annat sätt!

Så skulle plötsligt något ske på den Bana A's spel som leder till polisanmälan av något slag så är det sedan upp till Domaren i fallet att tolka situation-tillstånd-lag efter sitt huvud. Och vem vet vart det leder då! :roll:



TL:DR
Banor/Poliser/Utövare TOLKAR alla Lagen på SITT sätt, därför kommer vi ALLTID höra om "men Bana A tillåter faktiskt..." "Men Polisen i Kommun B säger att..." vilket egentligen är oviktigt, för Lagen som den är utformad omöjliggör praktiskt spel iochmed [den BOKSTAVLIGT MENADE] armslängds avstånd från minderårig skytt till övervakare.

Avslutningsvis vill jag personligen bara säga att jag har ingenting emot minderåriga spelare. Vapenvett, mognad och hyfs går före ålder i min bok. Men det gör det inte lagligt för det! :mrgreen:

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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby livewire » 4 October 2015, 09:01

Johnathon,

I agree he wasn't supervised was he?, they deemed him not to be under control of a adult which is correct, however the law isn't a blanket ban as a lot of individuals say it is, otherwise the individual in the article under would not have been cleared but he was even though the law states that a person under 18 cannot own a air pistol, with no minimum effect set like the distance argument in the other case, also as I previously stated as long as you follow the law which states the conditions clearly then I cant see it being a issue

http://www.dagensjuridik.se/2015/09/skj ... ojke-frias

Thats basically my point HrodgarHippie contact the local authorities instead of listening to hearsay and the law isn't as clear cut as some individuals believe, I mean hell think if they did physiological evaluations to own a air pistol I'd have a few sure bets that there are bods in the sport now that I wouldn't let own a dog never mind a air pistol :D
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby KronaN » 4 October 2015, 18:24

You all raise valid points.

But the way I see it is this: because the law in this country can be interpreted in different ways, it is simply easier to avoid a scenario where it requires interpretation in the first place. By setting an unofficial policy enforcing strictly 18+ as the age limit, you avoid potential problems entirely.

Sucks for those who are dying to play before 18, but it's well worth the wait IMHO. And it's much more fun to be free to do anything you want on a field and be on equal terms with the adult players, rather than being reigned in by an "invisible leash" like the law says :)

Not to mention of course, that having the legal right to buy your very own airsoft gun as soon as you are able to play must feel better than pining for something you can't legally have yet when on a field.

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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby HellfireATM » 5 October 2015, 05:33

First of all livewire, I think I can recall Grimsas getting in trouble with the law about minors taking part in their games, and now only allow 18+. If Im not mistaken.

Secondly, if you do read the law in detail, "within arms reach" is that the supervisor must be able to sieze the weapon from the minor and take control of the situation without delay, something that is impossible in the field. There are court rulings to back that up.

Thirdly and most important, even if its technically possible to - through interpretation and loopholes - for a minor to join a airsoft game, its still not recommended because our hobby is already seen as something bad and warloving in the eyes of the general public, and incidents - especially with minors - is reeeaaal bad publicity. Please dont let your ego ruin this hobby for everyone else.

Just imagine the newspaper headline, "Gunman was local minor training military tactics at airsoft field".
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby livewire » 5 October 2015, 09:24

My ego has nothing to do with it mate, presumption is the mother of all fuk ups ;-) , this is meant to be a discussion not a personal attack on me as my opinion differs from your own ;-) I totally understand the concept of why the the view is the way it is, however I would prefer that people say the real reason like yourself and kronan etc, instead of playing armchair lawyer and and hiding behind a judgement or legislation,that supposedly means a blanket ban for minors but has been proved otherwise by one of the highest courts of this fine country.

If there are court cases to back up what you say please link as I would like to read them :-) if you however mean the one Johnathon spoke about earlier and referred to, then please read my earlier reply

Also as for a Grimsas "getting in trouble with the old bill" please don't write "hear say" or "rumour" unless you have firm evidence to back it up, it can do a lot of harm

As for headlines, gunman and general what if scenarios......... Not really a realistic situation and I don't think myself that it bears any relevance in the current discussion and therefore null and void
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby Bennybira » 5 October 2015, 10:35

@livewire
What's up with the english? Mother tounge? Or just uncomfortable with swedish?
Just asking.. (it's "hear say" btw)

With that out of the way.
Are you over 18? If "yes" is the answer, why are you promoting minors playing on fields with adults?
I don't want to shoot a minor (there without WRITTEN CONSENT from a parent) and then get pulled in front of a judge for injuring a CHILD. Doesn't look good on the rep sheet ;)

I don't mind minors playing action sports.. in fact i promote it. (skateboarding, bmx, hockey?!, paintball and martial arts)
But in the case of paintball they usually play with other minors. The same goes for most sports and hobbies.
The risks of injuring the children / minors in physical sports decreases if they play with others of similar physical capacity / size / whatever.

So.. Want minors to play airsoft? Promote it?
Sure.
Max FPS for all minors rifles.
Max mag counts.
Semi locks.
Only minors on field.
Full face protection at all times.
Written consent (and registered at field) by PARENT OR PARENTING FIGURE.

If mixed age is allowed, the field must inform adult players. So they can leave / not play if they don't support it.
Transparency is of great importance.. it keeps everything easy!

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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby livewire » 5 October 2015, 11:24

Yeah mate mother tongue, I'm lazy and you guys English is better than my Swedish :-) thanks for the grammar control I'll correct the spelling mistake didn't realise it was a factoring part of discussion here, it’s a pain in the arse writing on the phone as for some reason the forum wont display properly and shows only half of what I've written

But that is exactly my point mate that I keep saying, if people are uncomfortable with the risk of giving a minor an injury that could affect them for the rest of their life, or don't wish to play with minors then I totally understand and agree with that point, however I don't agree with is using some law that isn't a blanket ban as an excuse, instead say so

As for minors, to be honest in the right place and right time it can work, my point isn't to have young lads and girls hopping into a badass mil-sim and the like just because they can, but maybe introduction days or the likes, at the end of the day it’s up to the individual organiser to sort out the logistics of it and is maybe another discussion and your suggestions so make a lot of sense, I am long over 18 mate but I don't think it really bears any relevance to the discussion unless you want to send me a cake :D .

I have also worked like yourself with a younger generation, spent a lot of time teaching them with real firearms, both with live and blank ammunition so am conscious of the potential damage that can be inflicted and the safety factors that have to be weighed in
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby tysonsw » 5 October 2015, 16:02

I can find numerous cases just by googling "Soft air gun rättegång".
But since the media mostly likes to print issues where someone will be sent to court, and not if there is a ruling, then it is usually quite hard to track down.
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby livewire » 5 October 2015, 16:22

But most of the stuff that comes up with a quick google is about robbery,rapes and general being a dick with a air-soft weapon or minorities using one without the correct supervision which isn't what my discussion here is really about.

My point is from the beginning is that the law makes concessions and as long as they're followed then you aren't breaking the law and there isn't anywhere where in the current legislation that states that is it is illegal for a individual under 18 years of age to use a air-soft weapon or partake in a air-soft game which certain individuals on the forum have insinuated with "enligt svensk lag så måste du vara över 18 år för att få delta i airsoftspel" it just isn't correct. Also to call the local plod and check with them beforehand and see what the score is in the local area as it varies so much.
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby tysonsw » 5 October 2015, 16:37

From the Police webpage:
"Luftvapen, Paintball, Soft air gun och övriga vapen
Effektbegränsade vapen drivs oftast med kolsyra, luft eller fjäder. Projektilen kan vara en metall- eller plastkula, en pil eller en färgampull.

Under 18 år
Du som är under 18 år får aldrig använda ett luftvapen utan uppsikt av en vuxen person som kan ingripa om något händer. Detta gäller även inom privat område. I särskilda fall kan du få licens för den här typen av vapen.

Över 18 år
Du som fyllt 18 år får använda effektbegränsade luft- och fjädervapen utan licens."


Then I can find this regarding the Swedish Weapon Law 1996:69 §2.1:
1 § Tillstånd krävs för att
a) inneha skjutvapen eller ammunition,
b) driva handel med skjutvapen,
c) yrkesmässigt ta emot skjutvapen för reparation eller översyn, eller
d) föra in skjutvapen eller ammunition till Sverige.
Tillstånd krävs inte för den som har fyllt arton år om vapnet har en begränsad effekt i förhållande till andra jämförliga skjutvapen (effektbegränsade vapen) och vapnet är
1. ett kolsyre-, luft- eller fjädervapen eller ett vapen med ett annat liknande utskjutningsmedel och är avsett för målskjutning, eller
2. ett harpunvapen."

Which basically means that if you are under 18 years old then you must have an license to use the gun outside of direct adult supervision.
Trespassers will be shot.
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Re: Airsoft under 18

Postby livewire » 5 October 2015, 16:57

Ok then you have missed all written before mate :D , I haven't said it’s OK for a -18 to use an air-soft weapon on their own without direct adult supervision, anything but, if the supervision demand is met then it’s OK is it not ?. For example if my son and I, who is under -18 go out and play, be it alone or with other individuals (of course with their approval as well) as long as I am there and can react and take control, then there is no conflict with the legislation ? All the criteria are filled and met, and that is my point, that it isn't illegal for a -18 to partake in an air-soft games or use an air-soft weapon that certain individuals here misinform.
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