AirsoftSverige

livewire skrev: 3)Need to be in armlegth reach of a grownup.
A)You are in a arms reach of adult supervision

We all know this is an impossible thing in a game.
So still a NO.
You break the law if you play under the age of 18...

livewire skrev: 3)Need to be in armlegth reach of a grownup.
A)You are in a arms reach of adult supervision

Detta är skrivet med målskytte i åtanke, inte airsoft eller paintballspelande.
Men om jag inte har misstagit mig får Frysen ha minderåriga på sin bana med Jönköpingspolisens tillåtelse.

livewire skrev:See told you.....

armchair lawyers??
Law in Sweden clearly say what you are alowed to do under 18.

You are NOT alowed to:

1)Own a gun ( includes Airsoft guns )
A) You hire or loan a airsoft gun

2)Use a gun outside a range by yourself
A)You have adult supervisor with you

3)Need to be in armlegth reach of a grownup.
A)You are in a arms reach of adult supervision

Yes, and it has all been tried in court. A minor was shooting a cheap soft air gun was held accountable and sentenced by two courts. They note that the law does not make it specificity clear on what is a reasonable distance and that a person in another room - or for that matter in an airsoft game - has no ability to intervene should be weapon be misused. Since the owner of the weapon in question was unable to prevent misuse, the minor was sentenced for crimes against Vapenlagen.

Source: https://lagen.nu/dom/nja/2005s758

Jag skriver detta på svenska, eftersom jag vill minnas att Livewire har skrivit att han kan läsa och förstå svenska bra, han föredrar bara att slippa svara på det.

Problemet vi har inom detta med åldern i Sverige är att i grund och botten är LAGEN skriven att kortfattat så får inte person under 18 spela airsoft i vad det betyder i verkliga livet, dvs röra sig i fält.
Vi har ingen lag som täcker skytte och rörelse, utan ENBART statiskt skytte mot en måltavla på en skyttebana. Därmed har man fått börja TOLKA lagen för att ANPASSA den till vår hobby. Vi tolkar, minderåriga tolkar, Poliserna själva tolkar.

Och när olika personer tolkar, kommer man fram till olika resultat.

DÄRFÖR har vi vissa banor som har minderåriga spel, eftersom där har banan och förhoppningsvis Polisen på plats tolkat till en lösning de finner acceptabelt där.

Sen kanske det finns andra banor där tillfrågad lokal Polis svarat precis tvärtom, för det är Tolkningen som sker där.

Skulle man sedan ta "Bana A"'s godkända tillstånd av [den lokala] Polisen till en annan kommun så skulle det bli ett omedelbart nekande eftersom Kommun B's Polis läser ut lagen på ett annat sätt!

Så skulle plötsligt något ske på den Bana A's spel som leder till polisanmälan av något slag så är det sedan upp till Domaren i fallet att tolka situation-tillstånd-lag efter sitt huvud. Och vem vet vart det leder då!



TL:DR
Banor/Poliser/Utövare TOLKAR alla Lagen på SITT sätt, därför kommer vi ALLTID höra om "men Bana A tillåter faktiskt..." "Men Polisen i Kommun B säger att..." vilket egentligen är oviktigt, för Lagen som den är utformad omöjliggör praktiskt spel iochmed [den BOKSTAVLIGT MENADE] armslängds avstånd från minderårig skytt till övervakare.

Avslutningsvis vill jag personligen bara säga att jag har ingenting emot minderåriga spelare. Vapenvett, mognad och hyfs går före ålder i min bok. Men det gör det inte lagligt för det!

Johnathon,

I agree he wasn't supervised was he?, they deemed him not to be under control of a adult which is correct, however the law isn't a blanket ban as a lot of individuals say it is, otherwise the individual in the article under would not have been cleared but he was even though the law states that a person under 18 cannot own a air pistol, with no minimum effect set like the distance argument in the other case, also as I previously stated as long as you follow the law which states the conditions clearly then I cant see it being a issue

http://www.dagensjuridik.se/2015/09/skj ... ojke-frias

Thats basically my point HrodgarHippie contact the local authorities instead of listening to hearsay and the law isn't as clear cut as some individuals believe, I mean hell think if they did physiological evaluations to own a air pistol I'd have a few sure bets that there are bods in the sport now that I wouldn't let own a dog never mind a air pistol

You all raise valid points.

But the way I see it is this: because the law in this country can be interpreted in different ways, it is simply easier to avoid a scenario where it requires interpretation in the first place. By setting an unofficial policy enforcing strictly 18+ as the age limit, you avoid potential problems entirely.

Sucks for those who are dying to play before 18, but it's well worth the wait IMHO. And it's much more fun to be free to do anything you want on a field and be on equal terms with the adult players, rather than being reigned in by an "invisible leash" like the law says

Not to mention of course, that having the legal right to buy your very own airsoft gun as soon as you are able to play must feel better than pining for something you can't legally have yet when on a field.

First of all livewire, I think I can recall Grimsas getting in trouble with the law about minors taking part in their games, and now only allow 18+. If Im not mistaken.

Secondly, if you do read the law in detail, "within arms reach" is that the supervisor must be able to sieze the weapon from the minor and take control of the situation without delay, something that is impossible in the field. There are court rulings to back that up.

Thirdly and most important, even if its technically possible to - through interpretation and loopholes - for a minor to join a airsoft game, its still not recommended because our hobby is already seen as something bad and warloving in the eyes of the general public, and incidents - especially with minors - is reeeaaal bad publicity. Please dont let your ego ruin this hobby for everyone else.

Just imagine the newspaper headline, "Gunman was local minor training military tactics at airsoft field".

My ego has nothing to do with it mate, presumption is the mother of all fuk ups , this is meant to be a discussion not a personal attack on me as my opinion differs from your own I totally understand the concept of why the the view is the way it is, however I would prefer that people say the real reason like yourself and kronan etc, instead of playing armchair lawyer and and hiding behind a judgement or legislation,that supposedly means a blanket ban for minors but has been proved otherwise by one of the highest courts of this fine country.

If there are court cases to back up what you say please link as I would like to read them if you however mean the one Johnathon spoke about earlier and referred to, then please read my earlier reply

Also as for a Grimsas "getting in trouble with the old bill" please don't write "hear say" or "rumour" unless you have firm evidence to back it up, it can do a lot of harm

As for headlines, gunman and general what if scenarios......... Not really a realistic situation and I don't think myself that it bears any relevance in the current discussion and therefore null and void

@livewire
What's up with the english? Mother tounge? Or just uncomfortable with swedish?
Just asking.. (it's "hear say" btw)

With that out of the way.
Are you over 18? If "yes" is the answer, why are you promoting minors playing on fields with adults?
I don't want to shoot a minor (there without WRITTEN CONSENT from a parent) and then get pulled in front of a judge for injuring a CHILD. Doesn't look good on the rep sheet

I don't mind minors playing action sports.. in fact i promote it. (skateboarding, bmx, hockey?!, paintball and martial arts)
But in the case of paintball they usually play with other minors. The same goes for most sports and hobbies.
The risks of injuring the children / minors in physical sports decreases if they play with others of similar physical capacity / size / whatever.

So.. Want minors to play airsoft? Promote it?
Sure.
Max FPS for all minors rifles.
Max mag counts.
Semi locks.
Only minors on field.
Full face protection at all times.
Written consent (and registered at field) by PARENT OR PARENTING FIGURE.

If mixed age is allowed, the field must inform adult players. So they can leave / not play if they don't support it.
Transparency is of great importance.. it keeps everything easy!

Yeah mate mother tongue, I'm lazy and you guys English is better than my Swedish thanks for the grammar control I'll correct the spelling mistake didn't realise it was a factoring part of discussion here, it’s a pain in the arse writing on the phone as for some reason the forum wont display properly and shows only half of what I've written

But that is exactly my point mate that I keep saying, if people are uncomfortable with the risk of giving a minor an injury that could affect them for the rest of their life, or don't wish to play with minors then I totally understand and agree with that point, however I don't agree with is using some law that isn't a blanket ban as an excuse, instead say so

As for minors, to be honest in the right place and right time it can work, my point isn't to have young lads and girls hopping into a badass mil-sim and the like just because they can, but maybe introduction days or the likes, at the end of the day it’s up to the individual organiser to sort out the logistics of it and is maybe another discussion and your suggestions so make a lot of sense, I am long over 18 mate but I don't think it really bears any relevance to the discussion unless you want to send me a cake .

I have also worked like yourself with a younger generation, spent a lot of time teaching them with real firearms, both with live and blank ammunition so am conscious of the potential damage that can be inflicted and the safety factors that have to be weighed in